In response to the declining first class volume and the deteriorating financial position it is no secret that the PMG wants to reduce the number of employees and has offered retirement incentives to other bargaining units. APWU represented employees who are retirement eligible have anticipated the offering of an incentive and many who are retirement eligible have delayed their retirement in order that they not miss out on a lump sum to cushion their transformation from a regular check to an annuity. Union leaders have acknowledged that discussions have been ongoing; however, the bland announcements in the June and August news releases do not come close to satisfying the need for information.
Thousands of APWU represented employees have put their lives on hold awaiting the outcome of the discussions and they have been provided absolutely no information. The only cogent information shared is that “no “official offer” has been made and an informal announcement that the national executive board supports the decision to refuse an incentive until the Postal Service complies with their contractual obligations. I am informed that during the convention it was reported that the delegates were told that postal officials have not proposed a specific amount. Is the amount the hang up, and if so what have they proposed and why not the same amount as supervisors?
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the amount offered supervisors; postmasters and mail handlers would be the starting point for discussions so other issues must be in play. Since this affects the lives of APWU members they have the right to know what the issues are. The retiree eligibles are not fools and the statement that “no official offers have been made or discussed” cries out for explanation of the “unofficial offer(s).” Release of this information does not constitute being “feasible or smart to conduct negotiations in public.” There is nothing privileged about announcing that an amount offered by the Postal Service is unacceptable.
If you recall in prior incentive negotiations the issues arose about excluding higher level maintenance employees that was worked through on each occasion, but we kept the members informed. Distribution of an incentive can also be an issue but without getting into specifics the members can be kept in the information loop.
Having negotiated three early outs, I know the issues that must be addressed and the need for confidentiality until a deal is finalized, but we owe those employees a timeline and a broad outline of the issues. You cannot tell intelligent people that “discussion” have transpired for almost five months and the only “official” statement that can be made is that the “Postal Service has not made an official offer.” What are the union’s objectives?
We did not just begin to negotiate with postal management starting in 1970, and we found ways to share information with the members about our objectives. We kept them informed about progress and lack of same. On occasion we invited members to be present at the bargaining table and personally witness the exchanges. Negotiating retirement incentives is not a national security issue and employees have the right to know the status of same.
From what I’ve been reading, at the Convention Guffey gave 3 different answers for why the APWU hasn’t gotten an viable incentivce offer yet. (1)The Postal Service ain’t broke. They giving the money to Postmasters, Mailhandlers & EAS; (2) The Postal Service is waiting for Congress to refund the money from overpayments to the benefits programs; (3) They won’t know how many people they’ll need after their downsizing program is completed. It’s all a bunch of B.S.!
I have been a Steward for many years.The Union has and continues to do what it can to preserve employment. I have directed members to take personal responsibility for THEIR employment. Members who have pay problems,because they did not remind their supervisor they had a SCHEDULED vacation,telling me,they (management) should have known. Signing 3971′s without reading them,and getting sick leave instead of annual leave.Members leaving their Postal Facility,on a 10 minute break,and returning 20 minutes later from a fast food restaurant,then telling a Steward that they should not have been charged with AWOL. I plan on retirement next year. Incentive or not.If you want to retire,plan for it now,do not rely on an incentive.Take personal responsibility for your Postal employment.
Burrus calls non-members “free riders’. Call us what you want Bill. I went from being a steward to a free rider after being shafted by my own so called union brothers and sisters. I can tell you one thing, the contract you all got suckered into ratifying isn’t much of a free ride. Try a little harder next time could you. The only reason you wanted it ratified was so you could get millions in advance for the apwu health plan. It’s all about the maney. Especially when it’s yours!
Buuuuuuz, I was so sure that you would admit to being the “SCAB” that you are. Go ahead and leave to make room for a future employee @ $16 per hour and help save the USPS……….
Sky Shephard
Thank you for visiting the site but repeated comments, one after the other defeats the purpose of providing voice for all. I love the opportunity to hear and read all opinions and your dialogue is helpful but give me a break.
Bill
Kevin McKenzie
There is a line between being divisive and speaking on behalf of those who have been injured. I have announced that I will refrain from future negative posts but full time has been changed to 30 hours, overtime changed from over 8 hours a day and wages reduced to $16.00 per hour. My discontinuing to post will not change these negative facts and postal workerrs will be adversely affected. Will you fill the void and speak on their behalf?
Bill
Congratulations Mr. Burrus, your site does engender a conversation, too bad it’s one of decisiveness. I remember when solidarity was more than just a 5 syllable word. I supported you all through your terms as our leader, right or wrong, you had my support. I now feel that was wasted and maybe now, you must regret retiring.
my wife is a clerk with 38 years. im a carrier. its my opinion that they will give a buy out after the election mail stops. i think the usps was a little worried about how many would leave. it has also crossed my mind that the apwu is a little concerned about how much money it will lose from members leaving.
Jerry Fagan or whoever you are -
A review of the comments indicate that a healthy number of the responders are union members, but if the non members want take advantage of an opportunity, why not? They have been free riding their whole careers and I wouldn’t want to deprive them of one more freeby.
Bill
If by “free riding” you mean working harder than most other Postal employees and filing no grievances while at the same time enduring being called scabs, looked down upon because they don’t believe they owe union officials a living then call it what you want. In my Postal career I never saw a union official’s name signed to my paycheck and neither was I hired by a union. The work ethic of most union members I was around was deplorable and was told by many on a regular basis that I needed to slow down and not make others look bad. Thank God, I’m out of that mess of bickering and whining. BTW, for all prospective union members, YOU CAN’T BE CONSERVATIVE AND BE A UNION MEMBER WITHOUT SELLING OUT.
I think he means “free riding”- Accepting the benefits paid for by others. Ditch diggers work hard, apple pickers word hard and they both make crap for money, because they don’t have a Union. You would have too if not for your Union.
What makes you think that the other Unions, Postmasters, EAS, and Mailhandlers are going to REALLY RECIEVE their incentives to retire? The Postal Service only has to pay if they are FINANCIALY ABLE TO!
The word is the APWU wants a check in your hand as you are leaving, NOT A PROMISE!
That is what I was told by a local REP!
In reply to Tom N. – Thing is , that would be fine with me to receive it later on just so I can leave now. You would eventually get the deal.
I absolutely agree with you. I will take an IOU.
In reply to Short timer: You still don’t get it. If the USPS never has the money you never get it!
In reply to Tom N.
I agree. Having learned the hard way, I have learned that NO ONE is to be trusted in the USPS, not management and not the union. As far as an IOU goes – my opinion is – GOOD LUCK! Knowing the USPS as I do, they will find a way to screw everyone out of as much as they can, and the union will not do a damn thing about it either. We’ve all been sold out by both sides as far as I am concerned and I’m getting ready for my own campaign, which will be AGAINST the union AND the USPS management, for that is MY EXPERIENCE.
Thanks for nothing, union ‘officials.’ You have taken my money and screwed me all the way to the bank.
This guy Guffey must be drinking dirty water. So far all he has told the members is that the APWU has had “informal” discussions with mangement about incentives. And I was buried under the end zone at Giant Stadium?Please Cliff do the members a favor and quit. Your “Win Win ” comment after the contract negotiations resembles Papa Bushs’ spewing out the “Read my lips- No New Taxes” quote. Take the cowardly vomit out of your beard and show some respect for the dues paying members. Be a leader and inform your members.
Why should and incentive be offered to all APWU members? I think the postal service needs to be careful about offering an incentive. I believe the incentive should be offered only to those employees who are eligible for retire; who has been effected because of their facility being closed and who are traveling 50 or more miles just to hold on to their jobs.
I don’t think it is feasible to do that. The incentive is meant to reduce the clerk compliment to hopefully keep people from having to be excessed etc.
In reply to Sheila.
Easy for you to say, babe. And you think that others haven’t been ‘affected’ just because their facilities aren’t closing? You are in a bubble, if you think that. Your vision of what is ‘right’ and ‘correct’ is obtuse, at the very least.
When the APWU agreed to the last contract, it underscored the weakness of the APWU, essentially underscoring it’s powerless nature today. They signed off on wages for new and future employees that are POVERTY LEVEL wages for a family, when you consider the hourly rate and number of hours they get. No reason to support that. What happened to the APWU?
In reply to exasperated.
Same thing that happened to Wall Street…blinded by power and greed. Altruism is out the window these days.
Retiree Eligibles
Let me be clear. I have absolutely no inside information about a retirement incentive, whether or not a postal offer has been made and in what amount. My only suggestion is that the administration communicate directly with the interested employees, not through rumors or statements to convention delegates that are subject to interpretation. The union has multiple means of communicating – that all members receive the same message that can be updated whenever new information is available.
Bill
Reply to William Burrus:
I just wish they would communicate with us. Surely they know something and should let us know. The lack of communication is what pisses people off about this and we deserve better. Our union leaders need to be upfront and current with all the members more often then they are, after all we are paying union dues – their salary. They better not be squirreling away money for their own incentives and leaving us old timer hanging like you have stated Bill. If they are, no wonder people are so upset-me included .
Linn D Messin
Unfortunately, you have not studied the evolution of postal employement and elect instead to repeat the anti union rhetoric that we should be glad to have a job. The level of postal wages were set by a strike of postal employees in 1970 that generated a decent pay increase as a return to work gesture, followed by the initial collective bargaining agreement. In combination, these increases advanced postal salary by 14% and included cost of living adjustments that were initially limited to $160 but in subsequent negotiations the cap was removed. Over the ensuing 42 years, postal salary has remained constant in real dollars when adjusted for inflation with modest pay increases. The cost of living adjustments and the salaries received by employees hired before May 23, 2011 purchase the same goods and services as the salary in 1970 after the strike and fist contract. In inflated dollars, this salary has increased over the 42 year period, but essentially employees earn the same salary as that received 41 years ago.
Most workers in our society have not enjoyed COLA adjustments over that period so their salaries have fallen behind and in comparison the postal salary appears generous. The union was instrumental in securing COLA and defending it in 1978 when it was partially negotiated away. Postal employees have nothing to apologize for in protecting their buying power while maintaining the best postal system in the world at the cheapest rate.
Bill
Mr. Burrus, I am grateful to the USPS for being my employer for the past 25 years. But I think sometimes the union needs to bend just a little and think about all those employees who have really been affected by all of this. Also the fact that some have been given less hours because of the newly negotiated contract. Just maybe the USPS should target a certain group of employees to offer this incentive to.
In reply to William Burrus.
I read what you said and I hear what you say, but Bill, what in the hell does it do us any good now if we don’t even have the freaking jobs that you guys ‘negotiated’ those great wages for? That was then, this is now. Times have changed and apparently the union has changed too. My experience here in Indiana is that the only people who get help or aid from the union are the friends of the union stewards and officials, and NEVER someone who actually has a valid problem or complaint. I pay my dues, I have been under attack by management for at least 2 years and I have begged and begged to: 1) Help the union FOR FREE in their attempts to uphold their principles, etc. To no avail, mind you. The union is full of a bunch of small-minded people, who apparently either think themselves too important to need help – or feel threatened by anyone who has a brain and wants to help. They talk out of both sides of their mouths, sending out newsletters, etc. saying how people need to ‘be involved’ in their union and participate and care…yet, when you try to volunteer over and over again and you are snubbed and marginalized by those people who could supposedly use your help, then what is the freaking point? I gave up. I’m pissed. REALLY PISSED. You people are a mouthpiece, that’s all. I have had serious issues that I have needed help with, issues that involve my further employment as well as pay issues, and the union cannot even file a freaking grievance for me. Timelines go by, I can’t file or do anything about them then, and nobody gives a crap.
Just take the money and run – and glorify yourselves – that’s how I know the union. That’s what YOU GUYS have taught me about the union. No freaking wonder membership is at an all-time low.
What incentive was offered to the supervisors, we are playing the same waiting game as everyone else and getting the same information which is none.
There are dozens of CFS units being consolidated in November and what about the small processing centers that have closed and any other unit that has shut it’s doors. How about offering something to those employees now. I don’t want to wait for a better deal I need to go now.
Where does this sense of entitlement come from? I make almost $30 an hour with no college education, doing $10 an hour work. My union made that possible. I have a job in this economy. My union made that possible too. They can’t fire me without me REALLY screwing something up. Thanks APWU for that as well. I don’t get a raise this year or a COLA. No incentive or early outs either. A small price to pay for a well paying job with security. It’s just like the workroom floor in here. A whole lot of bitching and moaning and standing around waiting for someone else to do all the work. You have a JOB! Be grateful.
In reply to Joshua Datig – AMEN!!
We are grateful for our jobs and benefit which no doubt were the result of our union. However, we are talking about the union keeping us informed. We shouldn’t have to ask until we are blue in the face. Simply put, President Guffy didn’t have to wait until the convention to let us know that he made a $15000 offer and was turned down by the USPS. He could have let us know that an offer had not been made rather than saying he was having informal talks. We are members not children who are being treated like we should not ask questions just do as we are told.
In reply to Joshua Datig.
Security, dude? I use to think I had security! That blew up in my face. Can’t fire you unless you do something REALLY wrong? Think again. But you’ll find out.
I use to love my job and be proud of where I worked. I thought I had finally found heaven and that I would be employed until I could retire from this organization. I had a job with that allowed me to provide for me and my kids. All gone, in the blink of an eye. There is no such thing as ‘security’ anymore – in the postal service or the country or the world. I suggest you open your eyes and get out of your denial.
In the past the Unions have served us well. They fought for a decent life for their members when unskilled and semi-skilled workers needed a wage that provided a future for them and their families.
Businesses aren’t stupid. They will pay those who have the necessary skills in the positions that need to be filled very, very well.
Let us be honest. The typical USPS employee, outside of Electronic Techs (and even a lot of them) are not skilled.
No one in a real world is owed anything. We have lost (as a people) the work ethic, the pioneer spirit let us say, that carved this country out of the wilderness and turned it into a superpower. After generations of entitlement minded people, including some USPS employees, we are left empty. We vote to put those in power that will guarantee us something we did not earn by hard work and a battle to survive.
Unions used to lead people in this struggle….now they and those who serve them no longer are relevant except in their own minds……we send a piece of paper across miles of roads for $60k-$100+k a year. Yeah that’s reality.
As for most of the management I have come across over the last few decades, OMG, romper room has more intelligent and dedicated life forms than this lot. Not all but most are the worst form of “waste, abuse and fraud” that should be reported to the same “waste, abuse and fraud” employees that oversee them.
That’s it for my rant.
In reply to Lin D. Meesum.
The reason we feel entitled to the ever elusive buyout is because of the battle scars given by management for years,decades even,and why not when the Postmasters and mailhandlers got their piece of the pie.
Lest we all forget: Like our great country, the Union works for the common good, not the good of my personal agenda. If you think it is broke, fix it. It seems we are at a crossroads. Watch the demise of a once great Union, or get off our Asses and do something other than whine. If there is this big ground swell of contempt for your Pres. think how easy it will be to kick his Butt out the next time. Just SOMEONE step up to the plate and say I am not gonna take it anymore.
Congratulations, Burrus. You now host a site that gives scabs a voice to bash the union. You should be proud. Hey, when you returned the Emeritus plaque, why didn’t you offer to return the Cadillac? Any good union buster would have done the honorable thing. Oh wait, never mind.
Ok, Ned – now you are Jerry Fagan- and who will you be tomorrow? How are things in Kansas today?
In reply to Jerry Fagan:
Excuse me. I am not a scab. I have (and still am ) paying my union dues for 32 years now. You are way off base. The union now a days deserves a good bashing because of the way they handle things and don’t let the employees know what is going on. All they say is “we have our agenda and won’t budge until it is met. Sorry, but that is not doing the members any good. There are eligible employees waiting for some kind of cushion for retirement that was basically promised to them months ago but are being held hostage by 1- the union and 2- Donahoe, take your pick.
Jerry Fagan…or whoever you are…apparently YOU are the ‘scab.’ Why? Uh, maybe it’s the condescending way you feel that you are the one who should take people’s rights of free speech away! I will say that if anything, this site is a great thing and a way for the union to see how their members (and others too) feel about things, they sure wouldn’t be able to find out from their representatives, who only have their little inner circle to bless with their presence or their aid.
Hard to believe that I am a dues paying union member, too, and not a scab – but I am at least able to voice my freaking opinion – NO THANKS TO YOU!!!!
Bill , Cliff said a little more than that. He is attempting to get the best deal possible.
He also said the USPS is not ready to deal us an incentive. The way i heard him was that as more buildings close management may then be ready to deal an incentive that should be equal to those given to the postmasters. As a local pres. I relayed
this to my members who are waiting and why not wait a little longer if thats what it takes to get a good deal. Earn more money and retirement credit.
I agree with most of the comments so far. I’m a 35 yr; hope, pray and can’t wait, soon to be retired postal clerk. I agree, wait until after the election. An agreement has been made to offer VER to 3300 EAS employees with a Dec.31st 2012 deadline. What is the problem with APWU , do the right thing for your members who have been faithful .
In reply to valeriewhinfield. Wait until after the election! WTF? I’m going down NOW, clueless one! Aren’t you the lucky one who is able to just put your career on cruise control and wait around. I’m not gonna make it until the election, but I have come to terms with the fact that NO ONE in this union cares, and I’ve been waiting for well over a year – with baited breath – for some kind of information. Now I’m just going to be a casualty. That’s the way it is. Wish you could be here.
I work in Roanoke Va. I was told by our Local President upon his return from the convention that Guffy said there would be NO Incentives for the clerks because there was no money.
Guffey did say he thinks USPS has no cash to pay an incentive, but I find that a bogus argument because if we don’t retire and keep working instead, USPS would have to come up with the money to pay us a $50K per year salary. Common sense tells us it is easier for them to pay us $15K to retire than the $50K salary.
The Postal Service defaulted on it’s PAEA payment due in August. Projections are they will default on the next payment. So pray tell , which orifice shall they pull any early out incentive money from?
I am a 35 yr APWU active member, steward for yrs, and was planning on being a full dues paying member into retirement. I am retiring soon and to the current APWU president, kiss my ass.
It is obvious the APWU financially will lose an enormous amount of money in dues if numerous members retire. The longer they put it off the more $ they receive.
Thank you Mr. Burrus for stating so eloquently what has been on my mind for months.
the apwu employees should not receive an incentive.
they are already overpaid and work the least of any
craft (including management) in the Post Office. Its also great how Burrus wants to be involved again to show how great he is, because of him all the mailhandlers
lost their jobs because he would not negotiate in good faith.
Keep waiting for the incentive the checks in the mail
Is this you Cliff Guffey? (aka. Moogoo ) Cliff , I can actually see you saying this .
Im an et with 28 years of service our buildings schedued to close in 14 with the mail being sent over 100 miles away we have no where to be excessed except to carrier while clerks get excessed into maint take the dumbed down test and get retrained to be level 9 s and 10s wtf not feelin the love
As a gmf just closed the begining of this month I know how the maintenance craft again got screwed in a clerks union. Most the ET’s took jobs more than 50 miles away as MM’s because there were no ET jobs, some went into AO custodian jobs . One Et is holding out with Vererains Preference wating for a level 10 job with in the 50 miles. He has been on standby along with others who were not placed because of lack of jobs. I don’t know about other places that were closed but this place just stopped on the last day. File cabinets , desk everyhting is like they are coming back and no one knows who is going to clean up this mess. BTW the UNION never sent anyone from the region to advise or even over see the closing. The PO ran every part and the people followed like sheep to slaughter. Thanks APWU now settle on a retirement incentive.
Opaqueness of the unions, specifically the NALC in my case, is the reason I dropped my membership. They do not ask the members what is important to THEM. They continue a ridiculous campaign to say the USPS is not going broke and refuse to look at realistic solutions, and instead put out their propaganda in the Postal Record. Virtually every carrier I talk to thinks 5 day delivery is a sensible and NEEDED solution, but you would never know that when listening to the leadership.
Getting any information (other then propaganda) from the NALC if difficult. For example on our contract we are in the dark. Local managers are making life hell on us working carriers, violating the contract daily and the union does nothing.
If our union(s) every become truly democratic and open, then I will re-join.
The unions are saying the USPS is NOT going broke? Please point me to the place where that is written or said. I believe the Unions are the only organizations trying to save the service! Those efforts are wel l documented in mainstream media everywhere.
What should happen next since the APWU is not allowing management to offer us clerks an VER incentive, 1) everyone who is eligible to retire should stay. This way you get to keep your $50000 salary and keep soaking the U.S.P.S. for what ever you can get out of them. 2) Drop out of the union ASAP! Since we all know that the APWU is behind this just to keep union dues coming in for themselves(officers)! This way management is stuck paying all of us retirement eligible employees and the union is stuck with no membership. They still have to represent you anyway!
What an idiot. If union has no members it ceases to exist. Then where will you be? No layoff clause-GONE. Seniority rights-Gone. Grievance procedure-Gone. Raises and COLA-Gone. These things alone are worth double the dues you pay. Sure, go back to minimum wage, no holidays, 1 week vacation, no rights to job bids, layoffs by their whim, and no rights if they fire you. Like Biden says “They want to put you back in chains.”
In reply to Retired:
You must have got your incentive money aleeady. There already is no union because management does what they want and the union does nothing. Stay retired and try and learn a little about whats going on now.
Just wait for the letter in the mail saying your done.That’s the one to believe…
Yes, back in 09 I remember the headlines were “postal service is broke” and “no incentives were being offered”. It made sense, people left and just a few months later, the offers came through. That was cruel and unusual punishment. No warning, just rumors. I believe with the next contract, we will loose the “no layoff clause” The conclusion is just common sense.
Stop supporting the ” Emperor Goffy Goon & his Gang” Download ps form 1188 and opt out of the ” Union” This isn’t a union , it’s a joke.
Horrible idea. All you do by getting out is guarantee they continue running the place. Stay in and actively hep someone beat them.
If we were going to get an incentive we would have got it by now. Guffey and the directors (the crooks!) are afraid of losing a big block of union dues which they will lose anyway when eligible retirement clecks retire in the next couple of years.
The only way I found out anything from Guffey was a poor quality video someone got of him speaking of incentives at the convention. He said he went to management with an offer of $15K and they said no. I’m sure along with his offer he gave then a list of demands related to the contract. In Oct. 2011 Guffey said :”I am certain there will be an early retirement offer for APWU members with incentives once the Postal Service fully complies with our demands.” So I think management really was saying no to his demands, NOT the $15K. He went on to say that USPS has no cash to pay the retirees $15K. My question to Guffey would be “How then could USPS afford to pay the people a $50K salary if they keep working?”
THERE HAS BEEN NO OFFER!! NO OFFER! ZIPPO! Managements strategy is working, just read all the garbage. Alot of coming from the past President who we all praised and is now stickin it to the present officers he had served with and supported. Noe he retired and can’t handle being left out. He has no knowledge of what’s being done any more than any of you do. A bunch of rumor filled bull statements!
In Reply to the Big:
Big T, or should I say BIG TRAITOR, you have to be part of crapola of an administration running the APWU. You use words that put me in mind of Mike M. There is no way you could possibly be a regular union member, who work on the floor for a living, that’s eligible to retire, and not receiving any credible information from your LEADERS (and I use that word loosely), so why not just step up to the mike and introduce yourself……?
The Big T,
Cliff did present an offer to the USPS (which was laughed at) and according to Cliff there has been no offer from the USPS. With that said the PMG was in the Portland Oregon Plant last week and allegedly told the employees there that an offer had been made to the APWU.
So who really knows. I have heard Cliff call the PMG a good guy and then ask us who we are going to trust………
Is everybody missing something or am I loosing it? I’m pretty sure that I read in the APWU website that an offer of $15,000 was offered to clerks during the negoiations and was turned down by our national executive board because they asked for $10,000 up front, and the Postal Service said no because they don’t have the money. It was feared that the second payment would be an IOU and not honored. We all know that that will probably be the case if Congress does not act on Postal reform next year. But, it’s hard for us to believe that that is the real reason, for turning it down, and also many of us, myself included, want out and we’ll take whatever little we can get now or later. I’m very disappointed by our APWU leadership. We really miss Burrus. The APWU website is a joke, same info day after day. How often do they update that thing once every 3 months. We want more current and daily information about our offers, and the details of the convention, etc. We also want out, but that’s been spoiled now for who knows how long.
Hey Visilick perhaps you were sleeping at the convention. I talked to Guffey on several occassions and was very pleased and had no problems. This was a great and informative conference. The rumors need to stop. The Post Office will not make any clerk and maint. offers until plants start shutting down. Why the hell would they want to replace people especially ET’s and maint. people? That would be pure stupidity. Mailhandlers are easy to replace with very little training. All you people are doing is causing dissention from within. You sound like union busting d-shits. If you want to retire then retire and quit your damn whining. Nobody promised you a bonus to retire. You should go into management for that losers.
Big T- Are you saying that is not what Guffy said? Then you were the one sleeping through the convention. If you spoke to Guffy so many times I would venture to say you are probably on the executive board or the NEC which answers why you would be supporting him and the comments of Mr. Morris- job security? Why do you feel it is okay for him to disrespect President Burrus at the convention? As far as the VER I made no mention of that except for what he said about an offer. The rest of what I said is true.
Vasiliki, I tend to agree with you on the subject of some of the posters on this site seem to be members of the EB/NEC. I was at the retiree’s conference prior to the start of the convention and personally heard Cliff, and Liz make some bold and arrogant remarks about how they are utilizing the Union’s membership where Mr. Burrus failed to do the same in his negotiating stances with management and the Congress. The grand finalley of the present Union administration is the layout and assembly of their “Golden Parachutes” as the Union will be no more.
You don’t know this but if you check with the plants that were shut down you’ll find most ET’s with years at Norman are now MM’s or custodians. How is that saving job positions. Oh the ones that stayed because thay didn’t want to travel are now carriers. Which are no longer in the APWU after their first pay period they trasfered over to the carriers union.
If it’s been said once, it’s been said 1,000 times, not till after the election ~~
It appears to me that the unions objective is to keep all of the clerks working, that way the union dues will continue to flow in. I’m very upset that Guffey and the natl. executive board have discussed a $40,000 buyout for select union officials. My guess is they need our union dues to pay for those buyouts. I’m fed up with them and tired of waiting for the incentive for clerks that’s not coming. Every month I wait is a month of my life wasted that I won’t get back. To hell with Guffey and the board!!! I’m mailing in my papers and leaving.
Go Big Mike! I’m right with ya!
if anyone thank geting incentive need go on and retire union is get layoff
Did sammy_jones forget to push one for unglish?
This sounds just like a union steward or member!
Hey, Sammy, whatcha smoking???
I think sammy just had a stroke.
Reply to Sammy Jones:
I THINK I NEED TO GET DENNIS TO TUTOR SAMMY! MUST BE IN MANAGEMENT!!
Hey Sammy, in what city are you postmaster?
Guffy said at the convention that he made an offer for $15, 000 and it was turned down. Then he said USPS made no offer after that. This could have been done in writing on the website and did not have to wait until the convention. Members want to know and pay good money to be kept up to date and informed. It was really no information at all. At the convention the executive board members who were present and speaking on stage were short and rude to the members. They weren’t really into it and were truly apathetic except when it came to telling us about how we all had to stick together. Morris even had the audacity to say said that anyone who wasn’t for Obama was a racist. That is a true insult to the intelligence of anyone out there who has been questioning the present administration. This is not the way to win people over. Guffy made several derogatory statements alluding to President Burrus which were truly childish. He acts like he just got there and wasn’t part of the past administration. Many delegates seemed apathetic and defeated. It was sad. I, for one, truly appreciate your insight President Burrus. Sure do miss you.
Vasiliki….
Were you asleep during the convention? Guffey came right out and said that no offers have been made. He said this during the Maintenance Conference, the Clerk Conference, and again at the end of the National Convention. Once again, I think people only hear what they want to hear. When I saw Cliff at the JW, he stopped, answered any question I had, and was very personable. During the convention, when Cliff had the chair, it ran smoothly. The only time there was an issue was when the chair was handed off, and then the rules seemed to go out the window. Once that person took the chair (and it is rumored that this person is also the same person that “Brother” Burrus is getting his information from) then the rules went out the window and ran like crap.
good comment vasiliki!
Well said, Vasiliki. Well said. As far as I am concerned, the union has become a caricature of itself. Those who have enjoyed the benefits of all the dues that the hard-working members have been paying for years are full of themselves and have most likely been plundering the union coffers, which has allowed them little time to actually represent those they purport to provide security and help. I say that all the union members should immediately pull out and leave that ‘Executive Board’ in the lurch. They are obviously out-of-touch and probably sitting around counting the money in their coffers – salivating over their well-planned exit and retirement at the expense of ‘the little guys.’ They must have taken lessons from our exhaulted lawmakers in Washington…probably had some training classes for ‘em…”How to Screw Your Union “Brothers and Sisters” All the Way to the Retirement Bank at the Beach.” (I think I remember a time in history when union members were much more violent…I think we will return to those times before it is all over.)
I was there, I heard no comment from Morris implying racism. Stop embellishing. If your dis-satisfied with your union, work to change it. With your job? Resign and find something that will make you happy.
Cliff:
Listen to Mr. Burrus, he is making perfect sense, on the other hand you are making a fool out of yourself and the rest of your adminstration by not allowing
your senior members to retire with an Incentive. Please don’t play us for fools. We all know that the USPS have had to have made an Incentive Offer by now.
How much was it Cliff? Be advised at some point we will find out and you will never be able to face your members again let alone think of getting re-elected
to union president. Just think Cliff, the USPS just contracted with the UPS to start offering our retail products right up through the Hazmat Question
being asked and the Mystery shopper to make sure they are. Do you think that soon many Junior Retail Associates will be losing their jobs either through
RIF or excessing to far far away places? Think of how many of these people you could have saved by simply negoatiating a retirement Incentive for your
Senior members to leave. When will you see the light Cliff. Tell us where you are at in the negotiations and if it is going to happen or not. Forget the BS
about checking the Website, I have been doing that since May and there has never been anything posted until you were forced to do so by a previous Burrus
posting. Wake up Cliff, the convention is over and so is the PARTY. NEGOATIATE NOW AND QUICKLY to save your junior members.
Come back Bill. Why did you go? You are the only voice of reason I listen to when it comes to APWU. Why doesn’t Cliff Guffey use the Internet and put out a weekly statement on the APWU web site like you are doing. I was told the post office doesn’t have the money to pay for incentives. That’s ok, I will take an IOU. Tired of waiting and ready to go.
I am so sick of the lack of communication on this topic from the APWU bigwigs I could puke. They must know timelines or something. I’m sick of waiting and will retire and maybe that’s what they want . Sick people playing with our lives after they said that negotiations were still being worked out. Well, let me decide what is good enough for a buyout, like take 15,000 if I go now, 20,000 if I wait till Jan. 2013 and 25,000 in the spring of 2013. Give people a choice.
They default at August and going to be default again at September and they keep losing money every day, where is the money going? employees were reduced from 70K to 50K, first class mail just down for 10% plus, but the parcels volumes are up, they make profit from that , why lose big money, isn’t it a joke?
Since I live and work in Florida I can and will be getting out of the union on my anniversary date in November whether I am retired or not. They no longer have our best interest in mind. You are losing my dues one way or the other!
Everyone that drops out of your union is falling right into managements laps. They are doing the old “Divide and conquer” strategy…get members to drop out, dry up union funds (so they can’t afford to go to arbitration), then get enough disgruntled members to try to de-certify your union.
Reply to Mike Eckel: Just how did management get us to divide & conquer? Im pretty darn sure we are doing that from within (APWU membership).
I am with you. After 29 years as a union member I will be getting out in Oct on my anniversary date. The union no longer has our best interest in mind. They are just trying to be the first on the life boat of a sinking ship. Screw you Cliff. Especially after the statement of negotiating 40,000 incentive for union officers which comes out of our paid dues. What a crock
Sounds like your mind is made up. Just what the USPS wants. Grow up without the Union you would be making minium wage w/ no benefits. Problem with the Union step up and change it. You quit your’re screwing yourself!!!
No, Bunny….You are SOOOO wrong about that! You are obviously one of those who are so brainwashed you can’t see the writing on the wall. Quit the union and I’ll have more money in my pocket because the UNION is the one SCREWING ME!!!!!
Yes the incentive issue is a problem but an even bigger problem was that awful contract that many voted for. It did not give us anything. We lost out on the biggest COLA in history(as far i know), 3 and a half years without a raise and these new supposed full time definitions are creating nothing but confusion. Well, I voted against it. And then I voted again with my dues!!! Call me a scab, I don’t care. Union leadership does not have your interests in mind. Why do certain dues now go to national and not shared with locals? And what about PSEs getting part of their health benefits paid for ONLY if they choose the APWU plan. I have 19 months to go and I’m out, incentive or not.
I agree Johnnyd, sold out is what that contract did to us. I can’t believe that so many people voted for it! Just goes to show you that the average union mentality is that of a follower. You know, those people who have someone else (union steward) telling them everything without really reading the contract themselves for the truth. Their trust issue is that the trust the union.
Mr. Burrus,
I think you inadvertently tripped over the answer in yesterday’s column. The early out money will be withheld until near the end(round 3&4 as you referred to it). At this point all the old and top pay APWU employees will have been forced into a corner, with regard to excessing and mile limits.
Also, the plan all along, I believe, has been to move everyone possible to the carrier craft, especially now that layoff protection doesn’t follow, then let them go with no recourse.
Just something to consider.
Bingo. I believe this is what they are up too. They fought too hard for this layoff protection elimination. Why offer an incentive when they can just lay you off or have you leave voluntarily. It would probably be a disaster to offer an incentive now anyway unless you just offered it to closing and gaining plants. Some facilities are understaffed already and then we have people in other plants with no work. I heard from people that attended the convention that Guffey tried to get a incentive and was told that there is no money.
They said the same thing in 09, Broke, then when some left, they offered $15K to the others!!! Same thing going on now!!!
Once many have left, they will pay the others!!!!
Seems to me that the old and top pay will probably be the VERY LAST to face excessing.
By then all positions will have been filled.
My wife is also Pass Ready, make her an offer
Good arguments above. This is the information era. Where is the info.. all you get when u call cliffs office is. “just keep watching the website”.. thats bull. as one said above. I expect bull from management but not union.. I suggest to all senior employees to stay. When the junior people start getting excessed then they will drop out of the union also. then when the senior people do retire the union will be bankrupt.. so how would that work out for you cliffy..
You know what I say about Cliffy, Old Clerk? I think we need to find the guy who took care of Jimmy Hoffa…
Just get us the same deal the mailhandlers got and I’m gone.
What happened to communication in 09? I was not told negotiations for incentives began on June 25th. I could have pulled my papers, I left on 7/3l/09 after paying union dues for over 20 yrs? I lost the $15 K, it hurt, and lost respect for the union as I trusted them to take care of dues paying members, just saying Dont Go was not enough, I had a right to know when negotiations began!!! The betrayal still hurts!!! What did Dont Go mean, when, how, where??? Failure to disclose all the info resulted in Loss!!
goofy is a POS. Sure glad I stopped paying dues. What a BS artist.
Fairly simple explanation. Issa & Ross are already on record saying they want to make the APWU contract null and void. Ryan already busted the state unions in Wisc. No contracts for mailhandlers or carriers yet. Why would the service spend millions on buyouts when, if these morons are elected and have a majority in Nov, they’ll do the dirty work with layoffs?
I’ve supported the union since day one but no longer will I support them as I am one of those who got tired of the waiting and decided to retire. I can accept the post office keeping me in the dark but that doesn’t compare to my own union keeping me even darker like it was highly classified event. Get over yourself and atleast take care of those behind me.
Cliff doesn’t get it. Employees eligible to retire are going to end up retiring anyway. This loss of Union dues revenue is a sham argument. Since when has Management ever followed the Contract?
Cliff, “Let Your People Go”.
i agree…wife is working and waiting for incentive.
.she is ready..
but won’t go till yea or nay on$$$